Piss off.

[slemslempike]

And, coming up in the future...
The pitch: I'm still single
The thesis: There are so many fat people in relationships, and I'm not even fat! What am I doing wrong?
Reason I won't post it: Eh, I probably will.>

That's from whateverhisnameis posting on Pamie's blog. This sets off a number of things I've been feeling. I will be whatever weight I want. It is no-one else's business. It is none of your business how much anyone weighs, or how anyone looks. You are not more deserving of things because you are not fat - also I am not obliged to fit into your idea of what people should look like. There is nothing wrong with being fat. Your opinion is irrelevant.

"I don't mean you". "You're not that fat". Oh really? Quantify 'that' for me. How long do I get to live in a safety zone, where you don't hate me for being fat, because I'm not quite fat enough to trigger whatever level you set out for "too fat". Do I have a stone or so of space? Pounds? Ounces? How about if I stay the same weight but instead of wearing clothes that "flatter" me, I wear whatever the fuck I want, and maybe I just look fatter? It doesn't matter whether or not you think you mean me - you include me in your sweeping dismissal whenever you use 'fat' as an insult, whenever you say someone should dress differently, or is in some way worthless because of their weight or size.

Also, fucking have the courage to say it. No "I'm sorry, but" or "I know I shouldn't say this, but". Come out and say the ignorant, mean things you think about fat people in the open so that I can fully understand how stupid you are and treat you accordingly. Although most of the time there's no apology, because fat people are disgusting and worthless and we should be made to feel ashamed of how we look because it offends people. I'm sick of enjoying a programme or something I'm reading and then suddenly feeling slapped when a random 'fat joke' crops up. I'm sick of me too. I don't speak up when people say such things that upset me, and I have used 'fat' as a catch all insult. I notice when I do, and I hate it.

Comments

[whatho.livejournal.com]

People are just beasts. Well, some of them. It's unsettling to think that 'fat' has become so deeply ingrained as some sort of acceptable insult that even its victims can use it unthinkingly. It seems to be considered guilt-free, this anti-fat stance - as if 'fat' is some sort of morally bankrupt lifestyle choice (first, it's seldom a conscious choice; second, what the hell if it is?) that carries a deserved baggage of derision and faux-righteousness.

Which is vomit-inducing really.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Yes, or not even guilt-free, positively moral to deride people because 'fat' is seen as a positive blight on society. Fat people are using up thin people's taxes by needing more medical care, so they're really selfish, and gosh darn it, they just look bad.

[whatho.livejournal.com]

Aye. Where as mannerless fiends who think it within their rights to deride other folk in public are positively charming.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

Heh. My most recent post describes verbal harrassment at the hands of neds - gay-bashing for the friends who owned the place, and fat-bashing for my boyfriend (and maybe for the fourth guy with us). I, being female and petite, was a dyke. We just had to put up with it because none of us wanted to lose our jobs (or, in my case, my visa status) for assaulting the morons.

'Fat bastard' does have some assonance to it - I wish it didn't quite roll so trippingly off the tongue....

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Yes, and also "big fat stupid" whatever. I try to get around that by saying that "fat" refers to the enormity of the stupidity, but I think I'm just quibbling.

What we need are some nice new insults that sound terrific, but aren't discriminating. Perhaps the government should get involved?

[jane-the-23rd.livejournal.com]

Not only do people act as if extra weight makes a person less worthy, but they actually do the opposite: they treat you differently if you lose weight, and that, to me, can be equally upsetting.

I put on a lot of weight in my mid-20s, and I really struggled with it, obsessed about it, and got upset about it a lot. When I was about to be a bridesmaid in my brother's wedding, my normally *VERY COOL AND NON-JUDGEMENTAL* mother actually made a few comments about it. "All the other bridesmaids are on diets", to which my response was -- we were in a restaurant -- to have a slab of banoffi, as if to say, "All the other bridesmaids can kiss my ass". I made up my mind then and there to stop obsessing about every piece of food (ok, I still do it sometimes, but it is much less of a focus than it used to be), and just to work on accepting my body, no matter what it looked like. There's no one more beautiful than someone who is happy in their body, who has the guts to just be him/herself, and can be strong enough to withstand stupid judgements. But the fact is, you shouldn't have to be stronger than the insults. They just shouldn't happen at all.

Weirdly, I lost a ton of weight over the next year. You'd think that would make me happier, but NO. The bottom line is: when you start to believe that weight=worth, when you find out 'how the other half live', it's a hard lesson.

The fact is, though, people did start treating me differently, acting as if I had done something of fucking value to society because I started taking up less space. My internal reflex is to say, "But even three years ago, I was cute, funny, smart, and a snappy dresser, and I was the SAME PERSON!" Ok, so anyone whose treatment of you is going to be based on your size is someone whose opinion isn't worth acknowledging, but still, it can really hurt. Last year, I ran into a guy who had known me 'then', and his eyes nearly popped. But I don't care. If he was so fickle as to not 'notice' that there was nothing fundamentally different about me, then he's too shallow for me.

Some people act as if because they are somehow thinner, they are in any position at all to judge your value to society, as if their opinion holds more weight just because my/your/anyone's body carries more weight itself.

It probably did boost my confidence to lose weight, but the reality is, I kind of wish I'd been able to work harder on boosting it BEFORE I lost weight (or maybe my increased confidence was already there) because that part of it is still a struggle.

Maybe it's my insecurity talking, but when people say, "You've lost weight, you look great", I sometimes hear that as, "Wow, now I can tell you the truth: you used to be so fat and look like shit. On behalf of society, thanks for ridding us of one less fat person."

Sorry for extremely long rant. But I feel your frustration.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

My weight tends to fluctuate, basically around the same pivot, but sometimes more, sometimes less. When it's less, people sometimes say "oh, you've lost weight, well done!" and I hate it. I try to understand that often it's because they see their weight as a struggle, and they're responding accordingly, but it is like what you said - rewarding you for not being so uncouth as to be fat. I end up just saying "I'm not trying" and changing the subject, but it is quite hard, even when people don't make comments about the size you are, that they suddenly praise you when it changes. And because my weight does go back up, it makes me very self-conscious that they think I'm not as good looking when I'm fatter.

[jane-the-23rd.livejournal.com]

Mine fluctuates, too, and I think everybody's does. I was on this running web forum and people were saying stuff like "I'm 128, I'd like to get down to 127", and all I could think was, "Er, why don't you just go for a pee?" Obsessing like that is more dangerous than just being who you are.

Anyway, it sounds like you have a healthier attitude toward your weight, and that will make you healthier in the long run. When the crash-dieters of our society start getting kidney failure, osteoporosis, and heart arrythmias, you'll laugh last.

I try not to get pissy over comments that are intended as compliments, but I still have a hard time. I had a pretty serious eating disorder when I was a teenager, and I remember, after I started getting back to a healthy weight (which would be right around what I am now), although I was finally recouping the social losses I'd had by being so focused on my weight, and finally coming back to the world of the living, some dick remarked that I'd 'let myself go a bit'. I wanted to scream in his face, "So you think I looked better when I was DYING OF STARVATION!?" But I just told him that I was healthier and stronger than I'd ever been. And he couldn't disagree. Well, he tried, but whatever. Dick. That shit makes me want more pie.

[jekesta]

Just word. To all of that.

people did start treating me differently, acting as if I had done something of fucking value to society because I started taking up less space

Argh argh argh grah ahrghhahr YES! They do that! Oh! I have slight fury yes:) It makes losing weight so bloody annoying because usually I just do it by mistake more than anything and suddenly everyone's proud of me or something and I'm supposed to be pleased they're happy I lost weight and became a Better Person. Argh.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

With me, it sometimes feels like that if I take the 'compliment' of being treated better, it's like a tacit agreement that I will try harder to remain the 'nice' weight that they like, and that any backsliding will be highly frowned upon. Urgh.

[pisica.livejournal.com]

Maybe it's my insecurity talking, but when people say, "You've lost weight, you look great", I sometimes hear that as, "Wow, now I can tell you the truth: you used to be so fat and look like shit. On behalf of society, thanks for ridding us of one less fat person."

My boyfriend has lost 40 pounds in the last 18 months, and while he doesn't actually look THAT much different (most of it seems to have come off his legs, so he hasn't dropped 10 sizes or anything), he says he feels healthier, has more energy, that sort of thing.

I don't want to dismiss anything you've said because it sounds valid, but it might be that 'looking better' isn't only a matter of weight, and people may be responding to that.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

And for those people who claim that their antipathy isn't about aesthetics, it's about health, there's a report in today's Guardian about that Danish research that seems to indicate that dieting is actually bad for you (not just doesn't work, recuced life expectancy).

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

There's also the research that it's healthier to be quite a bit overweight than it is to be even slightly underweight.

[jekesta]

I love you.

Especially the bit about when fat jokes crop up and the feeling that yes, this isn't meant for you.

And omg the 'compliments' when you lose weight that people genuinely can't understand why they are offensive. I baffle.

And I don't always pick people up on it either and feel awful for it. Although to be fair I'm not so much in the 'I don't mean you' category so people don't say stuff in front of me as much as they do when I'm thinner. And it's very strange moving between those two categories.

::needs a fat girl icon::

::gloves you::

[jane-the-23rd.livejournal.com]

And if you look in the gossip rags, one week it's all, "Look at the celebrities who have gotten fat!" by which they mean, look normal. And then the next week it's "Ooooh, deathly thin!" Or "Look who has wrinkles Shame!" followed by "Someone's had work done! Shame shame!"

We can't win. Even if we're not celebrities, those are the extreme versions of the standards applied to the rest of us. I take it, in part, as "Look at the woman who is imperfect! Who does she think she *is* leaving the house like that! Let's destroy her!"

Also, it's kinda gross, if you think about, that it's considered sexually attractive to look like a starving child rather than a healthy adult.



Let's all have some cake.

*eats pretend cake*

*passes it around*

*grabs it back*

munchmunchgobble.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

And they'd never dream of pointing out that you were fatter, because that would be rude, but to say that you're thinner, approvingly, is great. It's really hard to dodge the comments with any semblence of grace, because if you shrug it off, they decide that you have An Issue and want to talk about it.

[yiskah.livejournal.com]

Great rant - thank you. I hate the way that 'fat' has come to imply a whole basket of negative things - ugly, lazy, whatever - which are unrelated to its original meaning. I saw a post on a forum a while ago from a woman who was saying that she disliked all the euphemistic terms for fatness - fluffy, zaftig, etc. - and then said something like: "I'm fat. I'm not lazy, smelly, ugly, stupid, unhealthy or any of the other things people think 'fat' means" - it seems like such an obvious point, but it really flicked a switch in my brain, and has helped me get more comfortable in my own body. I eat very healthily, and I exercise a lot (for pleasure, not for weight loss) and so I'm the size I'm meant to be - and, I would bet, a damn sight healthier than someone who's starving themselves to reach a socially accepted standard of thinness.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

That sounds great - no euphemism. But it's impossible to say to someone "I'm fat" without them leaping over themselves to say "no no". Which I get that they're trying to be nice, but it's so loaded that you're not allowed to accept it.

And also, if you're not very fat, then saying you are is seen as an implicit insult to people who are larger than you. "Oh, if you're fat, what am I?" Well, we're both fat. And there's no problem with that.

One thing that really helped me when I was younger was reading something where someone said that they found shopping difficult because they were too fat for the clothes in most of the shops. And she said "I don't want to change me, I want to change the clothes". So looking at it as a problem not with me, but with people not accomodating me.

I agree

[mighty-pj.livejournal.com]

Being really fat (about 16 stone) I totaly agree with where you're coming from.

I often get the feeling from people that I have no right to live. Some one even told me once that i shouldn't go out clubbing till I loose whight!!!

Several films have been ruined for me becuse of the "Fat jokes"

As for when are you "not fat enough" from my experiance there is no such thin. I was a normal healthy size as a kid and young adult and people still allways made me feel fat....I think that is still my biggest problem in loosing whight even today....

My way of dealing with it is staying on the outside-which is killing me....

But I cann't be angry all the time cause that will kill me too...

Re: I agree

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

I was in a coat queue at a club once, and the man behind me groped me. I elbowed him forcefully in the stomach, and then he started yelling at me that I was a complete bitch and he hadn't touched me, and no-one would think I would because I was so fat. Which completely baffled me, and then when I understood really hurt. (Although I then went on to pull, so shows what he knows...)

I read your info, and your comment about becoming an aerobics instrutor interested me - my school PE teacher was a very large woman, who was incredibly fit and good at what she did. Whenever people talk about losing weight "for your health" I think about her.

I agree with your last comment. I bottle it up quite a bit, and this is my screaming so I don't do myself an internal injury.

[frightened.livejournal.com]

Well bloody said. It's all bollocks.

I used to get so much shit at one of my office jobs. I swear, every damn woman there was dieting except Mehnaz, who was fasting. "Oh, I haven't eaten in four days." "Oh, you can't eat that pasta, you'll get fat". Not a good environment for a recovering bulimic. And then one of them has the nerve to exclaim about how strong I am. Well, lady, maybe that's because I'm not dizzy with low blood sugar and my muscles aren't fucking eating themselves. You'd be amazed how much less weak you feel if you JUST FUCKING EAT ENOUGH TO LIVE.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

"You're always eating, you". Well, yes, actually. And? Only I don't do it surruptitiously, or if anyone's around loudly talk about how naughty I am, or emphasise that this is a break from my miracle diet.

[chiasmata]

That needed saying.

Between the ages of 16 and 18, I didn't eat anything like enough. It started off as an innocent attempt to lose a few pounds that I didn't really need to lose, but then not-eating turned into a habit - and the problem was compounded when emotional shit started to make me sick. Because I'm so short, it doesn't take much weight loss/gain for me to change size very noticably, and I was on the verge of having various people escort me to the doctor when things began to sort themselves out and I stopped losing weight. It took several years for me to get my eating habits back to something like normal and even now, eating enough is something I have to consciously think about.

Anyway, my point is that this time last year I was so proud of myself because through eating properly I'd finally put back on most of the three-quarters of a stone I'd lost, and I commented on it to my mother. Her reply? A disapproving "Yes, I can see you've put on weight. It's all gone on your arse".

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Fuck! People's views of weight and size are so horribly skewed. I've inherited some of my mother's problems with thinking about weight, which she got from her mother saying she was too fat when she was young.

[protoainsley.livejournal.com]

Thank you for making me think.

I keep writing in this comment box, and deleting everything I've said, because I don't have anything of substance to add, other than my experiences, which I can't talk about in a remotely detached way, making me come across as judging others, when I'm too self-involved for that. I know that I feel I'm somehow a failure as a person for not being anorexic, and something's wrong when even one person gets the impression that a disease as devastating as that one is desirable.

Bodies aren't meant to look good; they're designed to function. If they happen to look good while functioning, great, but for that to happen there needs to be a shift in what looks good.

I'll go eat lunch now.