I haven't used this icon for a while.

[slemslempike]

Quite often I see women refer to their male partners as "himself". I've never seen anyone refer to a female partner as "herself". Do people?

In order to stop myself accidentally going online when I'm working I've taped a small plastic box over the end of my cable. If I absolutely have to use it to print or email I can untangle it, but it's fiddly enough that it stops the "just for a second" lies. Now if I want to check something or have a break I ahve to go along the corridor to the shared PC in the language department, and weigh up the need for internet against the embarrassment of sitting with the screen in full view, and people who know that I have internet in my office making comments, and the lack of bookmarks. It doesn't stop me entirely (hello!), but it does cut down on pointless faffing.

I went swimming this morning and the children having a lesson were all hanging on to sort of thin tube things. How do these work? Do they help? In MY day we had floats and/or armbands and WE WERE GLAD.

Comments

[daegaer.livejournal.com]

"Herself" happens here, though I'd say it's less common than "himself" (which tends to be used by third parties talking about a woman's partner to that woman, say, a washing machine repair man instructing her to "Get himself to change the filter on that", and the like. It might also be used by both men and women to talk about a male boss - it'd sound very odd to me to hear it used of a female boss, though.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

I see it online with women referring to their own partners. I think. I don't know if it's come more often from any particular group. I shall have to pay more attention! I've never heard himself for a boss. Interesting!

[huskyteer.livejournal.com]

Those things are called 'pool noodles' and are popular in the furry fandom for use as the core of a prosthetic tail. So yeah.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Well, it's certainly one kind of helping! Though not quite what I was envisioning. The suits would get all matted in the pool. (I once found a website that pretended not to be sexual all about the joy of getting wet with your clothes on. I wonder what they would have thought of getting wet in a furry suit.)

[huskyteer.livejournal.com]

God, you'd drown!

[metamorphosa.livejournal.com]

I love how the wondering whether female partners are referred to as 'herself' isn't pointless faffing. Only in your journal (on my flist, anyway). :)

Good idea with the plastic box. I'd stick with it for, ooh, a few days, and then lose my temper and end up breaking it.

The tube things in the pool are supposed to be better because they tuck under the arms, across the chest, and literally all they do is keep the head out of the water enough to breathe while leaving hands and arms free to practice actual swimming technique. The old floats, well, didn't. Arm bands lift the tops of the arms, but that puts strain on the upper back as the child's torso sinks below them, forcing hte shoulder blades together. This is not good.

ETA: although after reading huskyteer's reply, I'm wondering if we're talking about the same thing.

[metamorphosa.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes, we are: http://www.funswimshop.com/flexibeam-pool-noodle-7-p.asp

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

I think you're talking about the same thing! I hadn't realised that they were substantial enough to keep them afloat properly, and imagined that the ends would get in the way. That does actually sound better than floats and armbands.

[metamorphosa.livejournal.com]

It doesn't actually take that much to keep a breathing person afloat, so their design is more about ergonomics. However the ends are a nightmare for anybody who's passing alongside of course. No more than splashing feet, I suppose (can you tell I seriously dislike swimming?).

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

I suppose 'her indoors' would be a kind of equivalent? Seems about as charming, too.

On a semi-related note, I only learned quite recently that in Ireland, 'your one' is only used of females. I wonder why?

Also, it occurred to me yesterday what an assymetry there is beteen the verb 'to father' and 'to mother', in terms of what they commonly refer to - as in 'He fathered her child, but she mothered his.'

Ah, English! Ah, humanity!

[daegaer.livejournal.com]

"Your one" is clearly feminine ;-) The wikipedia page on Hiberno-English claims it might be from the Irish bean, "woman" (which might require it to be from a putative vocative, a bhean perhaps? I don't know - it might, I suppose. There are related forms, "young one" and "aul one", of which "young one" at least can be used as a direct address (I have been so addressed myself, when I was, er, a young one)). Or, it might not.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

I think that "himself" is actually much nicer than "her indoors". And I do sometimes see him indoors, though not as often (for obvious reasons). Himself is at least a thing about himself, rather than just reduced to a relative function (or a spatial report).

Yes - fathering/mothering very very different! I have also mused (very twattishly in an essay) on the difference between a paternity suit and a maternity dress.

[steepholm.livejournal.com]

And "him outdoors" just sounds... well, stalkerish, somehow.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Him outdoors - hunting, gathering, washing the car...

[biascut.livejournal.com]

I use "Herself"! Not all that often, but it's definitely part of my vocabulary. I can't quite tell whether it would be if I didn't have any contact with Ireland, though - it's one of those things that was part of my passive vocabulary beacuse it's around in Yorkshire and Lancashire from Irish immigration, but wouldn't have been part of my active vocabulary until I started going to Ireland.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Ooh! When do you use it?

[biascut.livejournal.com]

Overwhelmingly in the context of having started to make plans which involve Glitz without having spoke to her. So at the point at which me and A.N.Other have established that we would like to Thing at Time on Day, I say, "Excellent! I'll check with Herself when I get in tonight and let you know. Hurray!" or something similar.

I would use it jokingly to other women with female partners, too ("And what does Herself say about this?") and Himself to men with male partners. Funnily enough, though, I don't think I would use it to a male friend about a female partner, and I'm not sure why. I think possibly because it's usually a joke on someone's status relative to the person who's using it (there's a lovely bit on Father Ted where the Most Boring Priest in Ireland says to a picture of Christ, "Oh, it's yourself!"), and I tend to stay away from jokes about relative status in mixed-gender couples, if that makes sense.

[serriadh.livejournal.com]

My dad often calls my mum 'herself' in a sort of joking 'isn't-she-a-bossyboots' sort of way. ("I would rather be reading the paper, but herself needs the lawn mowed"). He sometimes uses 'Madam' instead. He doesn't do it often and my mum doesn't mind, but I can see it could be seriously irritating and demeaning (I wouldn't like anyone referring to me as 'herself'). Whether the fact that I would say Mum occupies the paterfamilias role more than Dad does affects this, I don't know.

[sabethea.livejournal.com]

Hmm. My mother occasionally uses 'himself' to refer to either Mouse or Jay. Not sure what this says about the related status of husband and three year old in her mind... ;)

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Interesting! Does she ever use it about your dad?

[sabethea.livejournal.com]

Nope - she calls him "dad" to me :) (and, I think, his name to other people)

[medland.livejournal.com]

They're called noodles. My godson used one. He'd put it under his body before he learnt to swim properly. Apparently it's better than a float because you can use your arms and your legs and better than armbands because it doesn't make you do the 'swimming while in a standing position' thing.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

A whole generation of children learning to swim across instead of up!

[medland.livejournal.com]

I was baffled by them when I had to help Thomas use one. Not that he really needed one, he was the most fearless kid I have ever met. He gave me a thousand heart attacks by flinging himself into the deep end when he was about 2. I still don't think I've recovered.

[antisoppist.livejournal.com]

Down here in Somerset, they're called "woggles". There is obviously some kind of regional nomenclature divide.

They must have been invented at some point between me being pushed in the deep end holding a rectangle of polystyrene by a sadistic PE teacher and me having small children.

And yes, they seem a great improvement. My 7 year-old has just started swimming lessons and for swimming on their backs, they bend the woggle into a loop, rest their head on it and hold the ends across their chests, which is much better than having to keep your arms up round your ears with a float.

[metamorphosa.livejournal.com]

which is much better than having to keep your arms up round your ears with a float.
Is that how you did it? We used to have to hold two square floats down by our hips with straight arms when we swam on our backs. I imagine it would be hard to have your arms outstretched... though better for stomach muscles!

[whatsagirlgotta.livejournal.com]

I think I use himself from time to time to refer to Mr W. In the context of the boy with whom I am associated, well since folk seem to assume we're both included in social arrangements, and its less serious/proprietary than other half or my boyfriend which I still find a tad perplexing as a word I might use in relation to myself. To me himself is easy and colloquial but less proprietary than some of the usual expressions. For other people I think I'd use himself/herself, especially where I don't really know their partner.

[slemslempike.livejournal.com]

Is it in contexts where using his name is awkward? I think I don't generally use sort of placeholders like that in speech, so I think if I were not using a more straightforward thing about relationships (though I have always found boyfriend etc a peplexing term to use too), I would say names.

[whatsagirlgotta.livejournal.com]

Sometimes, for example on LJ I never never use real names, mine or anyone else unless someone is clearly out in the open and happily links their username and real name, or its about someone famous/public issue. Since "himself" is not on my friendslist, nor I on his, then I tend to use something like himself, or something vague like Mr W since I never came up with an acronym* for him.

I'm also more likely to use placeholders with people I don't know super well who don't know who Mr W is. So if the woman I share an office with invites me to one of her concerts, I might say I need to check if himself's organised anything I don't know about, its a temp contract so noone here really knows about the details of my life, nor do I feel they need to. Also I find it much easier to get out of going to things I don't want to that way. I also feel a bit squicky about possessive descriptions, although its odd because my friend doesn't feel possessive in the same way that my boy/girl-friend does.


*Lots of my non-LJ friends acquired acronym's that were enough for a reader to distinguish who I mean, but not enough for someone to track them down unless they know who they are off LJ.